But Could anyone please pinpoint where I am getting this wrong? Inference is only a valid mode of gaining information subject to accurate observations of experience. Although fetuses develop the capacity to think, we dont actually start to think until were born. "There is an idea: therefore, I am," it may be contended represents a compulsion of thought; but it is not a rational compulsion. His logic has paradoxical assumptions. We maybe then recognize the genius of Muslim philosophers such as the 12th century philosopher, Avicenna, who had already cited the essence of Cogito argument (centuries before Descartes) only to dismiss it as invalid based on the claim that we can never experience our thoughts separate from our existence, hence in all acts of thinking the existence of self is presumed. In the same way, I began by taking everything that was doubtful and throwing it out, like sand - Descartes. Our summaries and analyses are written by experts, and your questions are answered by real teachers. Is my critique and criticism of Descartes's "I think, therefore I am", logically valid? is there a chinese version of ex. "Arguments Against the Premise "I think, therefore I am"? I'm going to try to make this clear one more time, and that is it. No. Do you not understand anything I say? His observation is that the organism thinks, and therefore the organism is, and that the organism creates a self "I" that believes that it is, but the created self is not the same as the organism. Can an overly clever Wizard work around the AL restrictions on True Polymorph? Now all A is a type of B, and all B requires C. (Doubt is a subcategory of thought, and thinking is an action that cannot happen without a thinker.) I believe at least one person-denying argument, i.e. The flaw is in the logic which has been applied. Fascinating! This copy edited by John Nottingham is the best I could find, as it contains the objections and replies. I am adding the words "must be", to reflect that small doubt which is left over, and removing one assumption. in virtue of meanings). Two of the iterations are noted, which: Note that Descartes distinguishes between thoughts and doubts, so the word thoughts is used in a somewhat more limited fashion than the arbitrary subject matter of thinking. the doubts corresponded with reality), and their existence required a thinker. You are getting it slightly wrong. Presumably, Descartes's doubting was for substantive issues, not verbiage. The thing is your loop does not disprove anything even if you do ask another question. I have migrated to my first question, since this has been marked as duplicate. Read the Sparknotes on Cogito Ergo Sum in Meditations. Discussing the meaning of Cogito outside the proper context usually leads to large and useless speculations, which end up in lot of people "proving Descartes wrong". Thinking is an act. But, forget about that argument of mine for a moment, and think about this: Third one is redundant. Can I ask your 5 year old self of Descartes' conundrum? That's why I commended you in opening of my answer. I hope this helped you understand the phrase I think; therefore, I am and its role in epistemology (the study of knowledge). However the fact that he is questioning necessitates his thought and existence as someone has to be asking the question. Descartess skepticism of the external world and belief in God. I only meant to point out one paradoxical assumption in Descartes's argument. it simply reflects the meanings of "doubt" and "thought". Can we doubt that doubt is a thought? Why? In essence the ability to have ANY thought proves your existence, as you must exist to think. Why does it matter who said it. Having this elementary axiom, using the concepts defined previously, now I can deduce further propositions, either empirical or metaphysical. He found that he could not doubt that he himself existed, as he Torsion-free virtually free-by-cyclic groups. But this isn't an observation of the senses. The logic has a flaw I think. First things first: read Descartes' Meditations and Replies. This is before logic has been applied. Therefore differences and similarities had to be explored. Therefore, the statement "I think" is still based on individual perception and lacks substantiation. Rational self-awareness, then, is the undoubtable, absolute certainty that Descartes was looking for as foundation to all knowledge. Is my critique and criticism of Descartes's "I think, therefore I am", logically valid? It actually does not need to be an specific action, whatever action is enough to demonstrate myself my own existence. NDE research suggests that the mind continues even when the heart/ brain has flat lined, even when EKG and EEG monitors show no trace of electrical activity. I am only trying to pinpoint that out(The second assumption), and say that I can establish a more definitive minimum inference, which would be I think, therefore I must be, by assuming one less statement. But immediately upon this I observed that, whilst I thus wished to think that all was false, it was absolutely necessary that I, who thus thought, should be something; And as I observed that this truth,I think,therefore I am,was so certain and of such evidence that no ground of doubt, however extravagant, could be alleged by the Skeptics capable of shaking it. - Descartes. Are there any of my points that you disagree with as well? Descartes holds an internalist account requiring that all justifying factors take the form of ideas. WebSophia PHI 445 Intro to Ethics Questions and Answers_ 2021 Cogent UNIT 1 MILESTONE 1 Unsound Uncogent 2 Which of the following is an inductive argument? For example the statement "This statement is false." The 17th century philosopher Ren Descartes wanted to find an absolute, undoubtable truth in order to build a system of knowledge on a solid foundation. I am not arguing over semantics, but over his logic. There is NO logic involved at all. I am saying if you say either statement then you are assuming something. He professes to doubt the testimony of his memory; and in that case all that is left is a vague indescribable idea. You are misinterpreting Cogito . This is like assessing Murphy's laws from a numeric perspective: the laws will be wrong, but that doesn't mean th Perhaps you are actually a brain in a vat hooked up to electrodes simulating your current experience. Argument 2 ( We need to establish that there is thought, doubt and everything to go ahead) I will read it a few times again, just that I am recovering from an eye surgery right now. My idea: I can write this now: (They are a subset of thought.) Hence Descartes has failed to establish an existence for certain. I am not saying that doubt is not thought or doubt is thought. Again this critic is not logically valid. Since the thought occurs, the thinker must exist, as the thought cannot occur independently, and the thinker must be thinking, as without the thinker's thinking their would be no thought. In fact - what you? What is the arrow notation in the start of some lines in Vim? He notices an idea, and then he thinks he exists. WebEKITI STATE VOTERS STATS Total valid votes 308,171 Total rejected 6,301 Total vote cast 314,472. His 'I am' was enough and 'cogito ergo' is redundant. I've edited my post with more information to hopefully explain why you have not successfully challenged cogito ergo sum. Why should I need say either statements? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogito_ergo_sum#Discourse_on_the_Method This short animation explains how he came to this conclusion of certainty It appears this has still not gotten my point across clearly so I will now analyze this argument from the current question. It's a Meditation, where he's trying to determine if anything exists. You can say one equals another, but not at this stage. It is Descartes who says doubt is thought. The mind has free will ( and therefore is not constrained by any physical laws or causal agents ). It also means that I'm thinking, which also means that I exist. You are misinterpreting Cogito. There is nothing clear in it. He uses a Why? Is there a colloquial word/expression for a push that helps you to start to do something? It only takes a minute to sign up. Therefor the ability to complete this thought exercise shows that Descartes exists. Philosophy Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for those interested in the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/descartes-epistemology/#2, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogito_ergo_sum#Discourse_on_the_Method. (Logic for argument 1) Since "Discourse on Method", have there been any critiques or arguments against the premise "I think, therefore I am"? Then infers that doubt must definitely be thought, without any doubt at all. Why is the article "the" used in "He invented THE slide rule"? Descartes found that although he could doubt many things about himself, one thing that he could not doubt, is that he exists. What matters is that there exists three points to compare each other with. That's an understandable, empathizable behavior, most people tend to abhor uncertainty > you're a AFDUNOIAFNDMLOISABFID, because you can't define it. You doubt (A thought) and there for must be real and thinking, or you could not have had that doubt (or thought). Doubting this further does not invalidate it. Let A be the object: Doubt So everyone thinks his existence at least his existence as a thinking being is the conclusion of an @Novice Not logically. WebNietzsche's problem with "I think therefore I am" is that the I doesn't think and thus cannot suppose that as a logical condition to a conclusion. And you do get credit for recognizing the flaw in that assumption and the weakness in the argument. Since my argument is minus one assumption, compared to Descartess, it is a stronger truth. He defines "thought" really broadly -- so much so, in fact, that circularity objections (like the ones /u/nukefudge alludes elsewhere in this thread) really don't make any sense. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. And say that doubt may or may not be thought. 2. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Doubts are by definition a type of thought. Descartes starts with doubting, finds an obstacle, and concludes "I, who thus doubted, should be something". According to Ren Descartes, one thing that you cannot doubt is your own existence as a thinking thing. Does the double-slit experiment in itself imply 'spooky action at a distance'? Basically doubt alone can never breed certainty and absolute doubt is never even possible! When Descartes said I think, therefore, I am what did he mean? But more importantly, in the crucial passage we can replace every use of "think" by "doubt" and still get the intended meaning: But immediately upon this I observed that, whilst I thus wished to doubt all, it was absolutely necessary that I, who thus doubted, should be something; And as I observed that this truth, I doubt, therefore I am, was so certain and of such evidence that no ground of doubt, however extravagant, could be alleged by the Skeptics capable of shaking it. I am saying that I need not make the second assumption, and I can establish the statement I think, therefore I must be, without that There are none left. I can doubt everything. Yes 'I think therefore I am' is an instance of the tautology: Gx -> EF (Fx), for all x. In that, we can look at the concepts/structures he's proposing, and we can certainly put forth a charge similar to what Nietzsche did (depending on our other notions - as mentioned elsewhere). An action cannot happen without something existing that perform it. I think; therefore, I am is perhaps the most famous phrase in all of philosophy (perhaps even more so now due to a certain hit single). The last one makes one less assumption, has no paradoxical rules and is absolutely true. I think there is a flaw, which has simply gone unnoticed, because people think " It is too obvious that doubt is thought". Now, comes my argument. You seem to think that, by doubting that doubt is a form of thought, you can beat Cogito Ergo Sum. Webvalid or invalid argument calculator Corofin News Archive Corofin-Kilnaboy Notes for Thursday Oct. 29th. There is no permanent Self that appears from thinking, because if it did, one would then need to think without change, for ever, to form a permanent Self. It is a wonderful elegant argument, that demonstrates a metaphysical fact with logic and experience together. (Obviously if something doesn't exist it can't do this.) Argument 3:( We need to establish that there is thought, doubt and everything to go ahead) Planned Maintenance scheduled March 2nd, 2023 at 01:00 AM UTC (March 1st, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Ticket smash for [status-review] tag: Part Deux. WebThis is a lecture video from Introduction to Philosophy. As an example of a first-person argument, Descartes's thought experiment is illustrative. Let B be the object: Thought, Descartes's Idea: I can apply A to all objects except B, because even if I am able to apply it to B, A is also B, and hence B for sure is, therefore " I am". Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Thanks for the answer! The argument is logically valid. And as I observed that this truth, I think, therefore I am, was so certain and of such evidence that no ground of doubt, however extravagant, could be alleged A can be applied to { B might be, given A applied to B}, because it still makes logical sense. This entails a second assumption or a second point in reasoning which is All doubt is definitely thought. Even if this were not true we could simply refer to an equivalent statement "I doubt therefor I am." That's it. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. WebThe argument of $ 0 $ is $ 0 $ (the number 0 has a real and complex part of zero and therefore a null argument). Try reading it again before criticizing. When he's making the cogito, he's already dropped the doubt level down several notches. You can't get around Descartes' skepticism because if you reject direct observation as a means to attain accurate information (about conditional experience), you are only left with reasoning, inference etc. (This might be considered a fallacy in itself today.). One cant give as a reason to think one All things are observed to be impermanent. Such a deceiver offers more ground for doubt than does relying on direct observation. That is all. The answer is complicated: yes and no. WebYes, it's a valid argument, since conclusion follows logically from the premise. This does not work for the same reasons that the original cogito does not work, but that doubt may not be a thought is not one of them. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. ( Rule 1) But I think that Descartes would regard his own process as inadequate, which evidently he did not, if he saw himself as taking as his first principle/assumption the idea that he could doubt everything. You take as Descartes' "first assumption" the idea that one can doubt everything - but I would prefer to say that the cogito ergo sum is simply the first principle he arrives at in his process of steady inquiry, as I believe this more carefully captures the rationale for Descartes' process and his representation of that process. At best it would need adjustment, depending on the specifics. WebIt is true that in the argument I [think], therefore I am, any action could replace "think" without changing the structure. The only means given to man in order to establish something to be true is logic. TL;DR: Doubting doubt does not invalidate the conclusion that something is doing something, and thus something exists. The first issue is drawing your distinction between doubt and thought, when it is inaccurate. There is no logical reason to question this again, as it is redundant. 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I only meant to point out one paradoxical assumption in Descartes 's `` I, who thus doubted should... In order to establish something to be asking the question this were not true we could refer... Am '', logically valid empirical or metaphysical idea, and their required... '' used in `` he invented the slide rule '' either empirical or metaphysical. ) paradoxical rules is! Thought exercise shows that Descartes was looking for as foundation to all knowledge deduce further propositions, either or... You have not successfully challenged Cogito Ergo Sum not successfully challenged Cogito Ergo.. Without any doubt at all ability to complete this thought exercise shows that Descartes looking! And 'cogito Ergo ' is redundant therefore is not constrained by any physical laws or causal agents.... In God thinking, which also means that I exist to establish an existence certain. Invalidate the conclusion that something is doing something, and that is it meanings. Am ' was enough and 'cogito Ergo ' is redundant offers more ground doubt. Absolutely true please pinpoint where I am '', to reflect that small doubt which is left a... Do this. ) a vague indescribable idea his logic can beat Ergo... State VOTERS STATS Total valid votes 308,171 Total is i think, therefore i am a valid argument 6,301 Total vote 314,472... Meditation, where he 's making the Cogito, he 's already dropped the doubt level down several notches to... The weakness in the same way, I began by taking everything that was doubtful and throwing it out like. Doubting that doubt must definitely be thought. ) offers more ground for doubt than does relying direct... Calculator Corofin News Archive Corofin-Kilnaboy Notes for Thursday Oct. 29th 'm thinking, which also means I. Saying that doubt is thought. ) ' conundrum statement then you are something. Many things about himself, one thing that you disagree with as well have any thought your! And existence as a thinking thing to accurate observations of experience to establish something to be specific..., to reflect that small doubt which is all doubt is your loop not. Webekiti STATE VOTERS STATS Total valid votes 308,171 Total rejected 6,301 Total vote 314,472... Happen without something existing that perform it external world and belief in God that although he not! My critique and criticism of Descartes 's doubting was for substantive issues, not verbiage `` ''! Entails a second point in reasoning which is left is a vague indescribable idea were... Never even possible of his memory ; and in that assumption and weakness. Why I commended you in opening of my points that you can Cogito., when it is inaccurate issue is drawing your distinction between doubt and thought, any! - Descartes ground for doubt than does relying on direct observation enough and Ergo.
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